I have read and understood the meaning of the term 'Dram Equivalent'. But sitting i Northern Europe's outpost, the country of Norway, I really wonder why you Americans still refer to blackpowder when you label your ammunition. Most European manufacturer of ammo don't refer to dram equivalents or blackpowder when labeling ammo boxes.Is it a law or regulation that says you have to label your ammo whith Dram Equivalents, or is it hard to die traditions?Second I wonder how you determine Dram Equivalents on steel shot loads and any other of the 'new stuff' we put in our shells. Do they make referance cartriges whith blackpowder to determine the equivalents?RegardsHagle. Hagle, a great many of us Americans wonder exactly the same things. It's not by law, it's the ammunition companies who cling to this archaic, outdated and useless convention, listing dram equivalent simply because they always have listed it. Shooters and hunters have asked that it be dropped, and that the 'power' of be expressed in muzzle velocity, but the old way continues.Current NSSA/NSCA Rule book: Clays, 5-Stand, Super Sporting & Parcours de Chasse (FITASC).
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A 3 Dram Equivalent will push 1 1/8 oz. Shot load at about 1200 FPS. Load will move 1 1/4 oz.
Of shot at 1330. Subtract about 50 FPS. From those figures for each quarter dram removed (Within Reason).And what about 1/2-oz or 7/8-oz or 1-oz loads? What about 10-ga, 16-ga, 20-ga, 28-ga or 410? Why does there have to be an archaic, meaningless translation between the information we are given and the information we need? Why can't we finally drop the stupid dram equivalent and know about how fast the shot starts? How hard is this?Are we really that sensitive to the remote possibility of an ancient hunter wandering into WalMart seeking duck or pheasant loads and being confused because they aren't marked the same as they were 100 years ago?Current NSSA/NSCA Rule book: Clays, 5-Stand, Super Sporting & Parcours de Chasse (FITASC).
I don't like the system either. In fact, I hate it. I would find it much more useful if they stated how many grains of powder were in their shells.
I had a guy at the range ask me how many drams of Red Dot he should put in the shells he was reloading. A dram is a little over 27 grains. I'd hate to think of the consequences if this man had put 81 grains of Red Dot (Over 4 times the maximum load) into his shells, managed to crimp them, and then gone to the range.BTI don't get to hunt enough to waste my time with malfunctioning shotguns.
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Shoot Remington!Liberals:People so open minded their brains fell out.Why settle for less than the best? Vote Republican!Cole. Grains of smokeless powder would be worse than dram equivalent of blackpowder. At least with blackpowder there was/is only one granulation that made sense to use in shotguns, but there are dozens of smokeless powders with shotshell applications.
Powder weight without specifying the actual powder used is a recipe only for disaster. In addition, ammo factories do not use the same powders that are available to reloaders, so their loading data would make sense at all to report.Just velocities. Please?Current NSSA/NSCA Rule book: Clays, 5-Stand, Super Sporting & Parcours de Chasse (FITASC). Hagle,How are they labeled in Europe? Is there a terminology like 'light target load' or maybe by feet/sec?I was a Metrologist for 23 years and I've seen more types of measurements than I care to think of. God only knows why we can't come to some simple standard. I wish the whole world would just switch to the metric system, it's so much simpler.Drams, grains, ounces, pounds, tons, metric tons, gallons, imperial gallons, stones, grams, pecks, yards, miles, kilometers, leagues, nautical miles, liters, inches, feet, cubits and on and on ad nauseam.There is just no end to the names we give to measures of volume, mass and length.
When it all really means the same thing in the end.I guess we're just slow to change.Remember, you can post here because they died over there.“Endeavor to clear your mind of can't.” - Francis P. ChurchCol 4:6. First of all thanks to DrMike and the rest of you for quick responce and more or less expected answers.On the question from Rastoff on what we do i Euorope I must first say that some countries are suffering from a total ban on led in shotshells. The countries of Denmark and Norway are now left to what ever other metals they can shape into tiny spheres. So the Dram Equivalent is more than ever a mistery. How do you determine Dram E.
On a steel shotshell?Else its as you say Rastoff they label the boxes whith names, not science. 'Light game load', 'Mini magnum', 'Super', and some even hust put a picture of a a bird or hare, indicating what the shells should be used to. But of course they label the payload, in gram (ca 28 gram to an ounce) and shot size. And here also we have our own system paralell to yours: US shot # 3 = Eur shot nr 2.
Since we have both in our stores there is a bit confusion.I fully agree on the demand for velocities on the boxes.Warning:In the country of Norway we have a TOTAL BAN OF LEAD in shotgun amunition. It could be you next! OK, I'm confused now. I always thought that the Dram measurement on shot shells referred to the powder. But, it sounds like y'all are talking about the amount of shot.The box I just bought is labeled this way:12gauge, 2 3/4'Length, 2 3/4DR. EQ., 1 1/8OZ Shot, #8 ShotIt also says 1165 FPS, Hi-Velocity Heavy Field Game LoadThe last box I bought had everything the same except it was 3DR EQ.
So, what is different between the two loads? Are we all talking about the same thing?Remember, you can post here because they died over there.“Endeavor to clear your mind of can't.” - Francis P.
ChurchCol 4:6. OK, I'm confused now. I always thought that the Dram measurement on shot shells referred to the powder. But, it sounds like y'all are talking about the amount of shot.The box I just bought is labeled this way:12gauge, 2 3/4'Length, 2 3/4DR. EQ., 1 1/8OZ Shot, #8 ShotIt also says 1165 FPS, Hi-Velocity Heavy Field Game LoadThe last box I bought had everything the same except it was 3DR EQ. So, what is different between the two loads? Are we all talking about the same thing?Dram equivalence (DE) does indeed refer to powder, and is a backhand way of describing muzzle velocity given a certain amount of shot.
Take a look at ShotgunWorld's own. Keep the DE (powder) the same, decrease the amount of shot and the velocity goes up, etc. Your 3-dr.eq. Load would be faster than your 2-3/4-dr.eq.
But you don't know how much faster unless you consult a dram equivalent chart.Current NSSA/NSCA Rule book: Clays, 5-Stand, Super Sporting & Parcours de Chasse (FITASC). The ammo factories no longer understand dram equiv.
I don't think, or have lost the long established chart to correlate Dram equiv. To velocity!!I am looking at a factory box of 16 gauge Remington Game Loads of recent manufacture. The description line on the box reads:16 -2 3/4' -1200fps -1oz -8NO DRAM EQUIVALENT!Yet you open the box and each shell is marked 2 1/2 - 1 - 8.This load has been established for years as 1165fps velocity!1200fps would be crowding the 2 3/4 dram equiv.
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